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How about section on Appalachian coal/coke routes (as in ops) to Cleveland, Toledo, Detroit, Chicago/NW Indiana.
Allen, first, thanks for taking the time to make a suggestion! The midwest terminals are a bit outside the scope of the site, but they’re not out of the question, especially if the info adds value for coal modelers. I can only expand into areas where I have good information, and right now, I have very little on coal traffic in those areas
Not a reply, but rather another suggestion.
I would like to see the West Virginia Northern under the Railroads dropdown. The WVN was a coal-only shortline in Preston County, WV, and it was in operation for exactly 100 years (up through 1999). The Durbin and Greenbrier Valley Railroad in Elkins, WV has restored one of the WVN 2-8-0’s I believe, but I would like to see some more photos of the earlier steam operation on WVN, if possible. There are some late (90’s) photos that were available on the web (I have captured those; they were originally posted at http://www.wvrail.railfan.net by a guy by the name of Matt Reese. Those have subsequently been removed and are no longer out there.).
Although I lived within 25 miles of the WVN for 13 years, I never knew of its existence until after it was gone.
John, I’m not familiar with the WVN, but it looks like a perfect little coal-hauling short line to add the site–thanks for sharing! The challenge I’ve got is I have no photos of the line, and it’s tough to start a page without at least one photo. Anyone got any photos of the WVN they’re willing to contribute to the site?
Hi Dan,
Here (http://railpictures.net/showphotos.php?railroad=West%20Virginia%20Northern) are some photos of the WVN in its sunset years as a tourist line. I could send the entire group of photos and narratives that Matt Reese had on his old website if I had an email address for you to send the stuff. I do not know how to get in touch with Matt Reese, but I think Adam Burns who maintains the site american-rails.com may be able to get in touch with him.
Thanks,
John
I wonder if we could help Dan compile information for the other Appalachian shortline coal haulers, such as the Buffalo Creek & Gauley, Winifrede, and Kelley Creek & Northwestern, to name a few.
Re; The Kanawha and West Virginia layout–
Given that it lasted until 1990, that brings the line well into the Conrail era. I remember seeing a good deal of black-painted power at Diamond, WV (was there a small yard at that location?) plus an increasing number of blue diesels. GP9 #7117 was working at Belle, WV at the station one Saturday evening. I went train hunting after a National Guard drill and even got the chance to climb aboard 7117. This was in the fall of 1979, BTW,
As far as rolling stock, don’t forget that some ex-EL, Reading, and PC hoppers were still on the rails before their date with the paint shop, as late as 1984. CR had parked long strings of hoppers on the line to/near Gauley Bridge, WV, very close to US 60. And there was hardly a place to pull over and shoot pictures!!!!!
Dan has done a great job translating reality into railroad with this plan. If space were available, CR also had a few MofW cars (ex-PRR passenger car, don’t remember which kind) and a few other now long-forgotten items near downtown Charleston, which could make for conversations or even a work extra on the line–but probably not on this branch. Anyway, thanks again, Dan, and I hope you encourage many modelers to take a chance on a good idea like this one.
any chance we can include the Pittsburgh & West viginia in the list of coal hauling roads? Until the alphabet Route came along about all the P&WV moved was coal!
Geo A Paxon
Do you think some guides on how to proto-freelance a coal hauler would be a good idea?
James, I think a proto-freelancing guide would be of interest to many, but it’s a bit outside the scope of Appalachian Railroad Modeling. Are you asking if ARRM would do some guides, or do you have some guides you think would be good material for ARRM? If the latter, I’m always willing to take a look. Thanks!
James posed a very interesting question. Some of the classic model railroads, like Allen McClelland’s “Virginian and Ohio” and Eric Somebody’s (I forgot his last name) “Utah Belt” were case studies for this very thing. True, they had merchandise freight as well as the coal as their traffic base but most of us readers–myself included–were focused on the coal.
I agree with James that info, guides, or what have you would be a good addition to the wealth of knowledge already here. I also agree with Dan that adding too much would indeed be too much: the “how much is enough?” conundrum.
What other opinions are out there?
Good Morning Dan,
Hope all is well with you. I like the KC&N plan since it’s coal-related and fits in a space many of us face when retiring/downsizing. What (HO-sized) thoughts might you have in adapting the key elements in your B&O/WM Chieftain plan to such a space? Staying on the WM, the Mt Storm branch on the Elkins line offers a reasonable amount of through traffic, a very small engine facility with lots of 1st generation diesels, and a torturous climb to the Mt. Storm power plant including a coal loader, 2+% grades, and horseshoe curves. Might could fit if one can live with an entry nod-under or lift bridge.
Ron
Good suggestion, Ron. I think I even have track charts for the Mt. Storm area. Putting anything HO in an 11×12’ish space is tricky, but I’ll give it a look. I think the Chiefton would be really tricky for that space considering the 11×20′ version is already significantly compressed… hmm.
So glad I found this site but I was wondering if anyone else was interested in the B&O operations north of Pittsburgh up the old Buffalo Rochester and Pittsburgh line. B&P(G&W) now run over the same lines.
There was lots of coal operations and branch lines worth looking at.
I’m working on a proto freelance version of the BR&P in and around Punxsutawney, Pa.
Has anyone researched the history of coal preparation plants? I am modeling a 1950s Appalachian coal hauler and want to know if a prep plant is appropriate for that era. Prototype photos, building layout and a track diagram would be helpful.
True prep plants, in the modern sense, were relatively new in the 50’s. Look at Moss #3 on the Clinchfield’s (shortly thereafter the N&W’s) Dumps Creek Branch that was finished in ’53 or ’54. I’m modeling the N&W’s Clinch Valley District, between Cleveland and Coeburn in ’50. What we typically see in ’50 is mine loadouts loading raw or mine run coal, shipping to a crusher, then being “processed” and reloaded as finish grade and size graded coal. But by 1960’s, all those crushers are gone in favor of prep plants or washer plants. I’m not sure exactly when the process of “washing” or floating the coal from the slag in a solution derived from diesel fuel was discovered. But it seems, as soon as they had this process down, coal hauling on the railroad changed significantly nearly overnight. I prefer the operations of, as well as equipment and other considerations, of just before this era.
1950 is great for me, especially when I can expand my current layout. As it will allow me to run the electrics under catenary out of Bluefield at the same time as the Class J’s. There’s only about this one year when these overlap, the last 6 or 7 of the J’s were put in service in ’49, and the electric operation up the Elkhorn grade was suspended in late ’50 with the completion of the new vented Elkhorn tunnel. Every railroad has these sweet spots, when just the right amount of cool stuff and operations overlap for a few years.
Thanks for the response. I am starting on a branch line on the layout that will serve a coal mime and a mining camp. I would like to incorporate a prep plant into the mine scene. I would be moving loads from truck dumps and a small mime at other locations on the layout to this area to be processed along with the coal produced at the mine. From your research, is this a plausible operation?
Dan; love the layout you did for Darrell. It has the marks that I’ve come to think of as characteristic of your work. Very well done.
When are you coming out here?
I got a bounce from your old e address. Your new one, please?
Frank
Frank, you can find the new address on the “contact” tab on this site. Someday I’ll finish the plan for Darrall after he gives me feedback on the draft 🙂
I would like to see the Buffalo Creek and Gauley represented on this website. The BC&G was a quintessential coal hauling shortline. A track plan would be great too. There are many photos out there to use as well. I would be happy to help out if help should be wanted.
How about including the TTI in your listing. This Northern Kentucky coal bridge line hauls coal from Paris, KY to a barge loadout at Maysville, KY on the Ohio River. A track plan and U25B conversion article published in RMC in the late 80’s. The line currently uses late model GE B36’s and relied on older GE U Boats throughout its existence.
If that’s the article I’m thinking of, the TTI also had–at least in its early days–an RS3 and a Baldwin switcher (type unknown). The change in topography from the more or less level areas around Paris to the much more rugged Ohio Valley would be a challenge but a scenic masterpiece. Good call on this suggestion, Brent!
On 9-14-14, allen rueter wrote:
“How about section on Appalachian coal/coke routes (as in ops) to Cleveland, Toledo, Detroit, Chicago/NW Indiana.”
Dan Bourque replied:
“Allen, first, thanks for taking the time to make a suggestion! The midwest terminals are a bit outside the scope of the site, but they’re not out of the question, especially if the info adds value for coal modelers. I can only expand into areas where I have good information, and right now, I have very little on coal traffic in those areas.”
Two of the major gateways for southern coal were the C&O’s and the N&W’s lines to Lake Erie and Chicago. Logically most of the coal went east to Norfolk and Newport News (Tidewater) and Virginian also hauled a goodly amount of black diamonds east. That being said, there was also a LOT of traffic heading north and northwest. For modeling, one “solution”–sort of–is just a pair of tracks aiming towards the simulated docks at Toledo, Cleveland, Fairport Harbor (B&O), Lorain, or any of the other Lake ports. C&O’s lines from the eastern Kentucky coal fields merged with the West Virginia lines at Catlettsburg, KY called, logically, Big Sandy Junction. Dad used to work there in the mid 1970’s and I had a great time after my job to just go and hang with him every once in a while. The N&W of course crossed the Ohio River at Kenova, WV and rolled west towards Portsmouth, where one line swung north, stopping before 1964 at Columbus–I think PRR took the coal to the ports from there. One of my all time favorite photos is in “C&O Power” where a photographer snapped a picture of a K-4 Kanawha (2-8-4) hauling a string of Virginian hoppers (empty) towards, I guess, the interchange at Gilbert. So, all in all, it’s a loads north/empties south traffic flow and if your layout has time for a couple of extra staging tracks, you could simulate any number of trains hauling “Lake” coal versus “Tide” coal. Just my two pennyworth of opinion.
Elk River RR operated from 1996 to 1999. I ran the first train and the last. Coal loading was at Avoca, MP-1.5 on the former BC&G. Track was used to MP2.5 to hold the empty 90 car unit train. Trains were loaded by 2-992 Cat loaders with 30 yard coal buckets. It took 3 scoops to load a 115 ton car. Weights were determined by “Loadright(or Loadwright) weighing system on the loader hydraulics. They got to within 50 pounds correct weight. The unit train moved from Avoca to Gassaway. There it was broken into 3 sections for movement across the two hills N. of Gassaway. We figured we could take it in 2 sections, but management was afraid of derailments. The crew from Avoca to Gassaway took the first cut across the hills and returned to G-way. A second crew took the last 2 cuts to Gilmer Station and put the train back together for CSX pickup. We set the EOT on the last car and left a note when the air was last on the train. Second crew then returned to Gassaway and went off duty. We could turn a train in 24 hours. Receive empties, move to loading, return to interchange running 146 miles R/Trip.
Stephen, thanks for sharing your story about the Elk River RR—-great information!
Could you make a ho scale track plan for new York’s central lines near Philipsburg pa? And could it also have the yard in hawk run? And morrisdale and viaduct? There are hardly any track plans for railroads in the Philipsburg and Clearfield area. The only one I ever found was the Clearfield branch one.
I’ll take a look at that area. Sometimes just a run through of topos and aerials is enough to inspire a plan.